Talk:Aveloc R&D
Only the events and issues surrounding Aveloc's R&D should be described on the accompanying 'article' page. Other information about Aveloc should be added to the Aveloc the Younger page.
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I was specifically asked to present Aveloc's side of it and gave a factual account in the original article.
Don't ask for my help and then change it. Aveloc signed off on my version, use it or delete the article.
~D
15:23, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)15:23, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)15:23, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)15:23, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)15:23, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)15:23, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)15:23, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)
- Unfortunately, that's not how Wikis work. This isn't "Aveloc's stance on the R&D". This is "the Aveloc R&D". --Krenn 20:20, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)
- EB specifically asked me to write up a bit about his story from his point of view that was fact based and put it here. I did that.
- Once again, YOU all came to ME. Not the other way around...
- ~D Sir Daniel 08:57, 23 Jan 2007 (PST)
- Please follow wiki edit conventions - reply after, not before. I believe EB asked you to provide a starting point, not an article that would be treated as a permanent, indelibly graven image, because that is not how Wikis work. They are collaborative documents, where everyone can edit - editors such as myself and EB act to remove biased or non-NPOV (neutral point of view) text. Please do not edit out other people's edits, as that will be construed as wiki vandalism. --Krenn 18:45, 23 Jan 2007 (PST)
- Greetings Dan and Krenn. Dan, thank-you for providing the additional information for this page back in July. I think the issue under discussion now is the result of a misunderstanding. I couldn't find my e-mail to you, requesting Aveloc's point of view, so I quote my mail sent to Groa from Aug 2005: "We will likely be contacting someone who holds opposing views to your own and include their article along with yours. Frankly, if possible, we'd like to rework both articles into one so that it provides both views of the man, the events and the issue in a neutral voice. (Although if that turns out not to be possible, I suppose we'll just leave both articles intact and present them side-by-side.)"
- Unfortunately we cannot guarantee that your additions to this page will not be changed. This is the nature of a wiki -- any page can be edited by anyone with an account. We do our best to monitor changes and maintain reasonable content. The information you provided is valuable, but contained aspects with significant bias toward Aveloc's point of view. Those aspects were adjusted or edited to bring the bias back to neutral while still including the information you added. Likewise we have also removed or adjusted comments that were strongly anti-Aveloc. (See the "article" tab > "history" tab to review additions and edits by user "Beweave".) You are welcome to add a link to an unchangeable website that states Aveloc's point of view. However we will also support the addition of a similar link to an anti-Aveloc website.
- Best, E.B. Elizabeth Braidwood 14:21, 24 Jan 2007 (PST)
I added the line about King Thorin affirming his awards. I'm not sure if it belongs in this article or in Aveloc's personal page, but since an R&D often is followed by the removal of awards and the possibility of the removal of his awards is directly related to the R&D, I listed it here. My source for this is e-mail that I sent during my term as Dexter Gauntlet to King Thorin and the orders he sent to me. --Quentin 16:32, 23 Jan 2007 (PST) 21:27, 24 Jan 2007 (PST)~
Quentin, I think you made the right choice. --Elizabeth Braidwood 18:49, 28 Jan 2007 (PST)
- I recall reading the original R&D (in the BoD minutes that were published), they specifically noted that his titles and awards were to remainRalg 11:47, 31 Jan 2007 (PST)
I checked my email from a year ago and apparently EB asked Groa and then Groa asked me. I was under the impression this was a place for Aveloc's side of the story to be told and another page would be set up for those who wanted to air the other side.
Thanks Quentin for adding your information.--Sir Daniel 21:27, 24 Jan 2007 (PST)
BTW "BEWEAVE" whoever you are, it would be easier to address your concerns if you signed your changes or put your name out where everyone could see it. --Sir Daniel 21:32, 24 Jan 2007 (PST)
I've changing the BoD back to not available on-line. I have been subscribing to the BoD minutes since the early 1980's. I got a copy of the January meeting mailed to me. Stating that they "were never published" is not correct. I remember reading the minutes in question. Ralg 11:44, 31 Jan 2007 (PST)
This website seems to be an archive of the site that Aveloc set up at the time of his R&D. http://tiarmour.com/obliette-%20aveloc/scaoubliette%5B1%5D.html
Tomas 20:53, 20 Mar 2007 (PDT)
Trouble is, that website is mostly lacking the original scans. They were in there at one time but it's not been maintained. It is actually a copy used by another program to re-construct the original.
The original DID have scans of all the documents in it though. --Sir Daniel 09:48, 23 Mar 2007 (PDT)
Rollback of Sancia's edit
A new user, Sancia, edited nothing but this page, removing some items that I (as an outsider) know to be factual, along with some "emotional text" on the page. While some of the hyperbole could have been removed, the edits clearly changed the entire tenor of that section and removed the concerns that many have had and continue to have with both the handling of the proceedings and the basis of the charges. I felt that inappropriate, and returned the page to the version that has stood since Feb 2007. --Krenn 01:02, 28 Dec 2007 (EST)